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W Stone
Reply with quote  #1 
What are your thoughts about this scripture.1 Thess.5 chapter..I have heard some officials over the year use the term peace and when will we know for sure ..that the cry for peace and security has began? Your thoughts..
Reply with quote  #2 
That's a great question and I often wonder about it myself.  I mean, we often hear of political alliances being made and 'Peace and Security' being heralded.  How do we know that the cry is truly the cry?  What will make it more significant then past cries?  I hope somebody gives their input here because I'd be anxious to hear it. 

The one thing I'm wondering though is...when it says, "...then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them" who is THEM in this passage?  Prior to my finding this site and Bro King's book I thought what pretty much every witness thought...the nations will cry 'Peace and Security' and then destruction will come upon THEM.  But now I'm thinking perhaps it's referring to something slightly different.

If you notice in the preceding verses Paul talks about Jehovah's Day coming as a thief in the night and then he talks about the destruction.  Could it be that the (THEY) who cry peace and security are the nations which immediately results in sudden destruction coming upon (THEM) The unfaithful slave (ie: spiritual Israel)

The way Paul writes in Thesselonians is as if he is still alive so he is talking to his Spiritual Brothers.  But it seems to me like when he says these things he is talking only to the ones who are in fact the faithful and discreet.  Does that make sense?  Do you have any thoughts on that?

 I know I really didn't answer your question but just curious if you have any thoughts on that.  Perhaps we could try to piece this puzzle together[smile] 

W Stone
Reply with quote  #3 
This cry of peace and security..could come from one of these sources...1 the Nations....2 from those who make up the the unfaithful in God household...they cry there is peace,there is peace,when there is no peace..the destruction.come upon the 7 head of the beast.which start the great tribulation..which is the start of the judgement upon the house of God..just my thoughts
Reply with quote  #4 
Okay that is an interesting thought about the cry coming from the unfaithful in God's house.  Interesting indeed
Mexican Gringo
Reply with quote  #5 
Hi. Well, if this is the "Peace and Security" cry that the Bible mentions it is still a few months away. However, I want to mention something that seems ridiculous but perhaps might make some sense if we take the Scripture literally. The Bible says that the time of the end will be like the days of Noah.

How were the days of Noah? Well, apparently in those days people also had a good time from time to time since they were also drinking and getting married, and that obviously imply that some people were doing very well financially. The weird part of this Scripture and its literal interpretation is that there were also giants in those days; something we never take into consideration.

For the last few years I've followed some Bible scholars and they seem to suggest that there will be giants on earth just like there were giants in the days of Noah.

In fact, one of them says that a 12 feet, 1000 pounds giant was found and killed in Afghanistan in 2002. Although this idea looks ridiculous, in my opinion it has to be taken into consideration. The last few years have taught me that nothing is as ridiculous as it seems to be at first sight- reptilians, annunakis, big foot, sirens, chupacabras, and that sort of things. Obviously, I do not believe that that the annunakis created man, but I no longer laugh at the idea that Queen Elizabeth can turn into a cocodrile in her private meetings with her compadres.

I wonder what you think.
Reply with quote  #6 
Originally Posted by Mexican Gringo
Hi. Well, if this is the "Peace and Security" cry that the Bible mentions it is still a few months away. However, I want to mention something that seems ridiculous but perhaps might make some sense if we take the Scripture literally. The Bible says that the time of the end will be like the days of Noah...

Take a look at Luke 17:26-30. It's refering to the same account in Matthew regarding the "...days of Noah". The difference is that, in Luke, we also see the time of the end likened to the days of Lot. How will the end be similar to both Noah's time and Lot's? Simple. In both instances it's mentioned that people were eating and drinking and getting married right up until destruction came upon them. They were living their lives without a care, and they were caught completely off guard. That's how it will be in the time of the end. Another similarity will be how the people ignored Noah's warning about their imminent demise. Oh, and regarding the chupacabras? You know how rare it is to see them? Yeah. Noah had the same problem, so they didn't make it onto the ark.
Reply with quote  #7 
no giants, just demons. and Jesus with his angels.

lot of version/translations here
not one has the word cry, cries or crying.

Kevin Bklyn once said a neat saying. a small change of ingredients can make a whole new soup. (trait of the man of lawlessness btw)

were they crying out peace an security in the days of Lot and Noah?

well, i know the good cry out to Jehovah and he hears them.

Ez 13:10
Jer 6:14
Jer 14:13
Jer 23:17
Mexican Gringo
Reply with quote  #8 
Hi Alex: I might be wrong, but I still think that leaving out the supernatural mentioned in Jesus' words is a big mistake. It is a known fact that JW's do not pay that much attention to that part of Scriptures. JW's  do not get involved in exorcisms and that sort of things, even though the Scriptures clearly say that that kind of spiritual warfare is part, or should be part of their ministry. Why is that?

The Bible does not say it, but it makes sense to think that there were giants in Sodom and Gomorrah, since those cities existed around the time Abraham, and the Bible clearly say that those lands were populated by wicked and perverted people.

It seems to me that nowadays people; including JW's, think that the supernatural ceased to exist and there is no reason to pay attention to it. One dogma that I find among JW's says that demons cannot materialize, and they use the Bible to prove this; however, this interpretation is very questionable as far as I'm concerned.

In may countries of the world the supernatural is alive and well. In Mexico, for example, the "legend" of the nagual has been around for centuries. Although I've never seen a nagual, throughout my life I've heard hundreds of tales regarding the nagual with different variations,- a nagual is a sorcerer that transforms himself into a rabid dog or some other animal-.

Many people; including Christians, consider this belief as an aberration of ignorant and savage people; and yet, they have no problem believing that Egypt's sorcerers were able to transform an inanimate object into a living creature. Now the question is: where does the Bible say that this "violations" to nature and logic were suppressed after Moses' exodus?

If Satan's minions were able to that in olden times, how do we know that they are not able to this in our days? which one is harder, to transform a lifeless shaft into a serpent, or to man to transform himself into a dog or some other creature?

And what about the UFO's? It's been proven time after time that they flee after they hear the Name of Jesus? Doesn't it tell you something? Doesn't it tell you that they are incarnated demons? In regards to the chupacabras, it is true that there is no consensus as to whether or not one of them has been found captured, but that does mean they do not exist. In fact, there is also a "mythical" creature called the "fairy". Well, this fairy is no longer a fairy tell. Not too long ago one of them was found in Mexico, and it is the most, frightening, fiendish monster that I've ever seen. You surely don't want to see one of this thing on you way back home after midnight.

Only time will tell whether or not I'm wrong, but I believe I'm right because the Scriptures say that the liberation of God's people will occur " like in the days of Egypt". Well, I hope this says something to you.

Reply with quote  #9 
Hi Mexican Gringo. Is this the "fairy" story that you are talking about:

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I don't believe in the supernatural. I've experienced it. It was in the sense that those that don't know any better would refer to as a "playful spirit". Without going into the full story, it was a visual and auditory trick where I could still hear the water running out of the faucet and splashing around in the sink after I shut it off. It was at an establishment that was rumoured to be haunted.That's the one and only time something like that has ever happened to me, but I've always believed that when people say they've seen a ghost, it is in fact Satan trying to deceive people. Why? Because if you believe in ghosts, that goes against what the Bible teaches. The Devil is tricky like that.

But all those other things? I really don't see what point there would be in giants showing up. I don't see how it furthers Satan's agenda. Are the other things you mentioned the work of Satan to trick people? I suppose some could be. I'm willing to entertain the idea that the belief in aliens and ufo's is. Why? Because the Bible teaches that we're God's creation. No mention of Mork from Ork or Alf or E.T. Get people believing in something contrary to what the Bible says, especially if they witness it with their own eyes, and it's mission accomplished yet again for Satan. A lot of that other stuff though I chalk up to hoaxes and over active imaginations. In other words, people come up with ideas, and maybe they sometimes believe it themselves, and they put it out there and see who will listen.

Mexican Gringo
Reply with quote  #10 
Hi Alex, no that is not the fairy I'm talking about. The one I'm talking about is this one:

W Stone
Reply with quote  #11 
In recent days we once again hear reports of peace and security..One call is from the American and Israel..another possible call is from the Russian and Americans...with all these calls for peace and security,how are we to know what call is the one that Paul spoken about in 1 Thess.
Victor Field
Reply with quote  #12 
Does any one think it is a possibility Peace and Security has already been triggered?

W Stone
Reply with quote  #13 
These no doubt that the destruction that Paul spoke about in Thess..Comes upon the 7 the head of the wild beast..But it who's

'saying Peace and security .Is it the nations,or from the unfaithful from among gods household.. ie the man of lawlessness..If you let the Bible interpret itself ..Look at Jeremiah 8:9
Reply with quote  #14 
The scripture does not say it is a "cry" for peace and security
It says "when they are saying" which is a bit different from a cry for something.

Saying something has far less impact than crying for something, which implies a need rather than an an understanding of a present situation.

Also who is "they" and "them" that the scripture references?

 Some believe "they" refers to the whole world on the realisation of the "rapture" taking place referred to in verse 17 of chapter 4. After all the scripture does link this "saying" with Jehovah's day coming ( or the day of the Lord) as a thief, or as as something totally unexpected.

There must be a good reason to feel peace and security has come if the whole world in unison is saying so. So before this is said, are we to assume that the world is in a terrible state and people have no hope (maybe ww3 going on)

So something happens that is totally off the radar( except to Christians who expect this even though they don't know the timing. ) and is a worldwide phenomenon, rather than a situation that occurs before the world enters the unparalleled time of trouble known as "the great tribulation".
If it is not the whole world, then who is "they"?  Who could be the people saying P&S? The governments of the world? A small group of radicals? Only a percentage of the worlds population? If so why only these people. Others may not agree with it. There could be P&S in one part of the world but not in another part. Indeed don't we have that situation to some degree even now.

But note that when this saying of P&S occurs so does sudden destruction. Instantly. What does this mean? Annihilation by some atomic force from God like in Sodom and Gomorrah perhaps. Or is it more of the realisation that death is inevitable. Verse 3 gives the illustration of it being like birth pangs. (or labor pains) upon a pregnant woman.
Why use this illustration? Labor pains are often preceded quickly by the birth of a child and there is no stopping it. It has to happen. So there is also no escape from death for whoever "they" are.

So when is all this going to happen?

Or could it be that in saying peace and security ( or safety as some versions render it) it is not
a declaration but a request.

Reply with quote  #15 
Originally Posted by W Stone
What are your thoughts about this scripture.1 Thess.5 chapter..I have heard some officials over the year use the term peace and when will we know for sure ..that the cry for peace and security has began? Your thoughts..

I've always gotten the impression that the "Cry of peace and Security" would be a celebrated event. 

"Cry" can carry the meaning of celebration, party, or a big display.... Just my thoughts.
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