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W Stone
Reply with quote  #16 
In order to understand those that will be saying Peace and security..We must first break down this world into its must basic elements..That is this world is made out of 3 major parts the policital or governmental the financial or business part and lastly the religious part..So from which part does the call of peace and security come from ..We can rule out the business end of the equation because they have no business interests. No profit for them Next we have the governments To date we have heard many calls for Peace and security from them with no sudden destruction.Plus why would the devil make that call when he has the whole world in his power,and he knows that when that call comes his end is near..So that leaves us with the religious part of the world..There is only one religion that the devil want to attack That beening the Witnesses..In a sense the Witnesses our saying that there organization is the arc of salvation a place of peace and security..That momrra is been consental proclaimed Thur there licture..Plus Jeremiah say that they would be saying Peace when there is no peace.
Just a thought
Bklyn Kevin
Reply with quote  #17 
Originally Posted by Dustman
The scripture does not say it is a "cry" for peace and security
It says "when they are saying" which is a bit different from a cry for something.

Saying something has far less impact than crying for something, which implies a need rather than an an understanding of a present situation.

Also who is "they" and "them" that the scripture references?

 Some believe "they" refers to the whole world on the realisation of the "rapture" taking place referred to in verse 17 of chapter 4. After all the scripture does link this "saying" with Jehovah's day coming ( or the day of the Lord) as a thief, or as as something totally unexpected.

There must be a good reason to feel peace and security has come if the whole world in unison is saying so. So before this is said, are we to assume that the world is in a terrible state and people have no hope (maybe ww3 going on)

So something happens that is totally off the radar( except to Christians who expect this even though they don't know the timing. ) and is a worldwide phenomenon, rather than a situation that occurs before the world enters the unparalleled time of trouble known as "the great tribulation".
If it is not the whole world, then who is "they"?  Who could be the people saying P&S? The governments of the world? A small group of radicals? Only a percentage of the worlds population? If so why only these people. Others may not agree with it. There could be P&S in one part of the world but not in another part. Indeed don't we have that situation to some degree even now.

But note that when this saying of P&S occurs so does sudden destruction. Instantly. What does this mean? Annihilation by some atomic force from God like in Sodom and Gomorrah perhaps. Or is it more of the realisation that death is inevitable. Verse 3 gives the illustration of it being like birth pangs. (or labor pains) upon a pregnant woman.
Why use this illustration? Labor pains are often preceded quickly by the birth of a child and there is no stopping it. It has to happen. So there is also no escape from death for whoever "they" are.

So when is all this going to happen?

Or could it be that in saying peace and security ( or safety as some versions render it) it is not
a declaration but a request.


 (All these things are a beginning of pangs) of distress.
 While he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”

 In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you,

 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.

6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet.

 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom and there will be food shortages+ and earthquakes in one place after another.

Victor Field
Reply with quote  #18 
It will certainly come as a shock,when it is realised
So we need to be there for each other,,
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