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Reply with quote  #16 
Hi Alex. As you know I recently went back after leaving then returning, then leaving again, finding Bro Robert & going back lately to only the Public Talk. The sister I was re-studying with is a chosen one & she decided to just stop the study after stalking me on FB & running to an elder to report me for having business posts on my statuses there & also for having as a 'special friend' a guy from Australia (that was a silly joke to stop another woman hounding him more than anything, which they would have found out had they read the actual thread & apart from the fact we had never met)
The thing that angered me was that she never used the Scripture in Matt 18:15-17 when we were supposed to be very friendly! I got the usual talk from the elder who was also stalking me on FB - I  since blocked them altogether.  This sounds soooo childish, I know!

Anyhow, I no longer had anyone to study with & I was totally lost, so I trawled the internet & eventually was led to Bro Robert. I skyped the sister to tell her that I wasn't going back to KH & that I was studying online with a chosen brother & a group of friends. On advice from people here I started going back to the Public Talks & then 2 weeks ago I was ambushed by the elder & one other as I left & told I was studying with an apostate. The sister had gone running to him, given him my phone number (which she had told me she lost when her phone was stolen), after completely ignoring me at the meetings. I was calm with the elders & explained that Robert is not apostate & is actually a chosen one, which they said he can't be as he is d'fed, that was the end of the matter I thought.
Last week 2 more elders wanted a chat so I invited them round. I had Roberts site open on the laptop so they could see if they wanted. They insisted 1914 is correct, there are very few pedophiles in the Org & if there are any they are hounded out. The UN/NGO thing was a lie, etc., etc. It was a hard visit as they completely repudiated anything I said. Anyhow, they asked if I would have another Bible study & I said I would think about it. Yesterday one of those elders phoned me & asked if they could come round again, I said no, I don't have time - I really needed time to think!
I am so very confused about what to do now. I cannot abide reading the things that the GB are doing/have done/falsely taught & I simply cannot go on the ministry knowing I would be lying. I don't want another Bible study with them as I will be forced to come back into line & much as I love going to the KH to be part of the praise to Jehovah I simply don't want to be an official part of the Org. anymore.
If they would consider going over Roberts articles with me on a study then, yes, I would do that, but if they refuse to read alongside me to see if Robert has the truth then I can't see the point, I am being chastised for something they refuse to understand which is very unfair & one-sided.
I also started smoking again which was a double slap on the wrist & I know it was stupid but I thought that if I am doomed for eternal death anyway then there is no point in trying to live up to Jehovahs standards - I honestly thought Jehovah had rejected me when the chosen sister started shunning me. I mean, if a chosen one decided I am not fit to live then I must not be!

Okay, there you have it, I typed a book & told all of you my stupidity, but you are all family so you deserve to know the truth about me. The congregation I go to is not very approachable (in fact years ago we started going to the Spanish meetings to see if they were any friendlier, but, no)
All these last 10 years I never had a shepherding call, no-one called to invite me back to the meetings, just no contact whatsoever, it was like I was dead in their eyes. I went back simply because I couldn't stand living without Jehovah in my life & I still feel that way.
Yes, I am confused what to do, Yes, I am crying inside just typing this, Yes, I love Jehovah, No, I don't feel just feels as though they are trying to find lost sheep only to punish them & I hate it all. I even have got to the point where I think that living eternally with all this pressure is just too much (although I know it won't be like this always)
I pray constantly to Jehovah about what to do & I am waiting for an answer. I want to serve Him properly but I don't want to go into the Org & KH knowing that satan is running things & gloating.
Peaceful Waters
Reply with quote  #17 
Dear Annie,

I'm so sorry to hear about the rough time you've been having. I know how frustrating, saddening, and difficult it all is. Please don't give up. Jehovah loves you, and no matter how others may treat you He will NEVER leave you! Keep praying and keep venting here, it will get better.

I've had several break downs this past while and some meetings are better than others. I found that forcing myself to have a positive attitude, and remember that I am doing it for Jehovah, seems to help. It breaks my heart that people who love Jehovah are also blinded by Satan, but that's why we have to be stronger. Don't let Satan win!

I try to reflect on Lot and all the experiences we have in the Bible of what others had to endure. I beg Jehovah to not let me go, and to help me keep my integrity, because I know I can't do it without him. We can do this! After all we have Jehovah, Jesus and all the angels for backup [wink] You can't ask for a better team.

Jesus said to pray for them, that they know not what they do. These truly are critical times hard to deal with. We do our personal study, bible reading, family worship and when it comes to teachings in the WT or the God's Kingdom Rules, we focus on what might be there concerning Jehovah. I don't comment anymore about anything I feel is "brainwashing" from the GB.

I love my brothers and sisters and have to really take it day by day. Giving my anxieties to Jehovah and relying on him for wisdom and discernment. I find it's really helped me deal with getting rid of the guilt I used to carry about service time, and so forth. Sometimes it seems hopeless, but Jehovah always gives us a way out.

I was almost obsessed before with all the disgusting things that were revealed about the GB and the organization, but now I find I am at peace with it. Praise Jehovah. A large thanks to Robert, all the brothers and sisters here that share their hearts, as well as being able to find other spiritually uplifting sites. Fill your mind with good things... Philippians 4:8, 9

Remember that you are LOVED. Sending you loads of hugs and prayers!!!

Reply with quote  #18 
wheres Alex (not 1914) been? anyone know?
Reply with quote  #19 
Hi Annie. Very sorry to hear that things seem to have taken a turn for the worse. It sounded like the one elder may have been willing to consider some of the things you brought up since he had requested the evidence, but I'm guessing he probably had his mind made up already. You mentioned a Spanish congregation. How long has it been since you went there? Is it in the same Hall like other KH's do it, or is it a separate location? If it's been a while, maybe it's worth another shot. It can't possibly be any worse. And if it's in the same location, good. Let those elders that are bothering you see just how dedicated you are to Jehovah by showing up somewhere else. At the very least, at least you'll get a laugh at thinking about how baffled they must be [smile]

And if the Spanish congregation won't/doesn't work out, keep in mind you don't have to put yourself through all that stress. Your relationship with Jehovah isn't dependant on showing up and getting shunned. It's between you and him. Period. If going there is going to drive you to smoking Satan Sticks, then I think that's a good indication that either switching congregations or taking some time off is probably a good idea. As Peaceful Waters pointed out, you have lots of backup on your side! Just keep praying, reading your Bible and popping in here from time to time and we'll help you through this [smile]
John S
Reply with quote  #20 
   There are several places we can go for spiritual food and mental /spiritual exercises; try this one, too Sister Annie, if I may?
John S
Reply with quote  #21 
  You will find on that particular website I stated, that the Christians there; most all JW's at one time, or still are....merely read their Bible to get spiritually fed.

  Jesus said, "I am true food and drink"....more or less. The 'Bread that comes down from heaven'....'remain in my word', he said. "Eat my flesh, and drink my blood." (John 6)

  The 'Vine' illustration Jesus gave tells Christian faith-followers they must be cleaned by the word of Christ, and by 'observing my commandments'.

   Now, I would like to highlight the important message Jesus and the Apostles preached. This is the paramount spiritual truth.

   Acts 2

   "He foresaw the resurrection of Christ, and it is this of which he is speaking. Christ was not deserted in death and his body was never destroyed. Christ is the man Jesus, whom God raised up- a fact of which all of us are eye-witnesses! He has been raised to the right hand of God; he has received from the Father and poured out upon us the promised Holy Spirit-that is what you now see and hear."

   John 1

  "That was the true light which shines upon every man as he comes into the world-the world he had created-and the world failed to recognize him. He came into his own creation, and his own people would not accept him.Yet wherever men did accept him he gave them the power to become sons of God." 

   This is very important. We actually need to reconstruct our faith...based upon the teaching of Christ and the Apostles. As a Witness, my faith was LOOSELY based on the 'blood of Christ and faith in it will help us get through Armageddon and live on earth forever in a Paradise'. 
   But this interpretation is far from what Jesus taught.

  "I assure  you," Jesus said," that unless a man is born from water and spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Flesh gives birth to flesh and spirit gives birth to spirit; you must not be surprised that I told you that all of you must be born again." John 3

   "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again. But whoever drinks the water I will give him will never be thirsty again. For my gift will become a spring in the man himself, welling up into eternal life."  John 4

   "Yet the time is coming, yes, and has already come, when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and reality. Indeed the Father looks for men who will worship Him like that. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him can only worship in spirit and in reality." (also John 4)

   This is the meaning of being born of the water and spirit. Real true worship means getting the reality, the real teachings of Jesus and the Apostles down in our mind, and putting faith in these spiritual meals, then if and when God approves ones faith, and petitions to forgive the believer and accept his pleas for forgiveness and to become a follower of Christ...then God will allow Jesus to pour out the Holy Spirit upon that one. By this means, the spirit will make aware to the believer he has been 'sanctified' accepted into sonship of God.

All who receive this divine gift from God are the 'sons of God', 'sons of the kingdom', and have a heavenly reward awaiting them after they die, as almost all will die, certainly before Jesus returns . This is the 'first heaven. This is the eventuality for all who receive the free gift of holy spirit, as all the Apostles, who mimicked Christ, taught. It should be the hope all Christians cultivate as it is the Christ-teaching...the Gospel.

  The modern day, movement we were caught up and carried along like flotsam and jetsam in front of a tidal wave, was "you can live on earth in paradise forever!" Although true, the earth is going to become a Paradise eventually, especially after Christ returns and the end of the 1000 years arrives; Satan is destroyed, and the evil cleaned out, and the Great Resurrection is finally accomplished...(no time is specified in scripture how long that takes; only 'after the 1000 years')....Christians are taught throughout the Christian teaching era by Christ, the sons of the kingdom will be selected, taught, and tested throughout their life until found faithful to death. 

   We are still in that time allowed; the selection of Jesus' brothers...right up until Armageddon/Christ's return.

   Jesus never taught or intimated that there would be two classes of Christians; heavenly hope/earthly Paradise hope. Never.

    The rulership and heavenly service is what is being presented as the goal for ALL Christians, is it not?

   Read ANY gospel account....any letter to the churches from any Apostle...ALL teach the anointing to sonship with God...all teach the reward is to go to heaven to be with Christ to receive further training, and receive immortal bodies. Then Christians are foretold to play the central role in bringing about a restoration of mankind to perfection, and the earth also. This is the goal of the Kingdom; the restoration of mankind, and this earth, and the elimination of the foreign race that invaded this planet; Satan, and the demon angels among them....but maybe even others out there. (Gen.6) 'sons of God' who knows what they all are, as humans, angels, and cherubs, sepharim,  whatever these are...they, too, are 'sons of God' but have differing bodies...all.

  So, this is BIG-TIME spiritual food for thought and spiritual comprehension, compared to the hope;

   "You can live in Paradise, brothers!"....something Jesus did not say we are to go out and broadcast as the 'Good News of the Kingdom'. 
John S
Reply with quote  #22 
Listen to a typical passage from Romans, where the true Christian hope is described clearly, and with passion;

  "All who follow the leading of God's Spirit are God's own sons. Nor are you meant to relapse into the old slavish attitude of fear- you have been adopted into the very family circle of God and you can say with a full heart, "Father, my Father." The Spirit himself endorses our inward conviction that we really are the children of God. 

  Think what that means. If we are his children, we share his treasures, and all that Christ claims are his will belong to all of us as well! Yes, if we share in his sufferings we shall certainly share in his glory.

  In my opinion whatever we may have to go through now is less than nothing compared with the magnificent future God has planned for us. The whole creation is on tiptoe to see the wonderful sight of the sons of God coming into their own. The world of creation cannot as yet see reality, not  because it chooses to be blind, because in God's purpose it has been so limited- yet it has been given hope. And the hope is that in the end the whole of created life will be rescued from the tyranny of change and decay, and have its share in that magnificent liberty which can only belong to the children of God.     

   It is plain to anyone with eyes to see that at the present time all created life groans in a sort of universal travail. And it is plain, too, that we who have a foretaste of the Spirit are in a state of painful tension, while we wait for that redemption of  our bodies which will mean that at last we have realized our full sonship in him. We were saved by this hope, but in our moments of impatience let us remember that hope always means waiting for something that we do not yet possess. But if we hope for something that we cannot see, then we must settle down to wait for it in patience.(Rom. 8:14-25 Phillips 'New Testament in Modern English') 

    Now , I ask you fellow Witnesses...if you had a dialogue like this at your local Kingdom Hall, would you be speaking the 'Theocratic language' WT GB writers boast about as 'the truth'? Or might you be tagged as a fake Witness, crazy, or even apostate? And quite possibly, gossipers and 'theocratic' watchdogs would report your 'subversive speech' to elders?

  No, that this is the way Christians educated...'born of the water and Spirit' are supposed to talk, and the outlook they SHOULD have if they have God's Spirit in them...."Born of the Spirit, and truth."

     Additionally, as in all the letters the Apostles wrote; 'God', or 'Father' are terms reserved for God. 'Jehovah', is not used at all, and nowhere does Jesus refer to God as anything but Father...or God. This, too, is a truth that is paramount, and needs to be considered; the over use of God's if it had magical power to constantly use it in discussion and prayers ( I remember brothers saying God's name over 20 times in meeting prayers...and more) in the congregation. Father, is sufficient, and intimate, as sons of God should respect the relationship as the Son of God did too. Not to bury God's identity, no. But insisting all people say 'Jehovah' all the time in referring to the Father...well...that is not commanded at all. What did Jesus say? Simple.

   I see also in this passage the importance of waiting on God's timetable to bring the end of this system....not saying, "Its right around the corner, brothers!" In reality, the Christian believer and Apostle Paul....spoke in terms of remaining faithful to death, then receiving the resurrection as his reward time.

  Giving the membership of the followers of WT the false hope they will not be persecuted during the end-time, whereas the scriptures show clearly the sons of God will be persecuted and murdered en mass numbers at the end, is unfair, and untruthful. And why are they being persecuted? ... not because of Jehovah's name, but because of 'bearing witness to Jesus'. So, that no doubt will include millions in the churches who place full hope in Christ as God's means of salvation..... (see Rev. 12 describing Satan attacking witnesses) ....and who refuse to take the mark of the beast at crunch-time. Millions will see the evidence of Christianity as the truth during the Great Tribulation, and will convert to the true faith. (Rev. 7:9,10 also See the 'My Two Witnesses' prophesy in Rev.11)

   Of course , for any reader here to see that there are good and faithful Christians in churches of all faiths (Christian) and some maybe not even Christians yet (Matt. 8 where Jesus describes some not even known as Christians)...who will make it into eternal would be good to walk into at least a few churches and see for yourselves this is true. Don't wallow in doubt! Be brave! Go on and investigate and prove to yourself what is true or not. You will be pleasantly surprised I assure you. Trembling at men is what lays a snare, but those trusting in Jehovah will rise up. Don't let WT clergy intimidate you. This is your worship of Jehovah God and his Son. Personal, not to be tampered with, or threatened. protect your worship, and make sure it is pure, and unadulterated with man-made commands. John 16 says let God's Spirit lead you into the truth...not religious leaders out to put your worship under their knife. (read John 9)

   God is love and you will see there are loving Christian people all over the place! Not just saying we are true Christians, either...but doing works that demonstrate what is in their hearts.

    So, that is another way searchers such as ourselves can discover where to go to get and give (you can teach too right at the Sunday school meeting before the preacher's sermon begins, that's what I do ) spiritual food and association. REGARDLESS that this is the way Christians are supposed to talk, and the outlook they SHOULD have if they have God's Spirit in them...."Born of the Spirit, and truth. But anyway, you'll see many are not 'church 'zombies' at all. If you want to leave it. I've walked out during sermons I didn't agree with, or not gone back to that church if I was doing no good there.

  I've walked out of KH's, too, when I heard teaching that is not Bible truth, as I have the last two times I went.

  Any thoughts?


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